Mitose: the man, the myth
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Mitose: the man, the myth - May 9th, 2007, 4:29:51 PM
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Danjo
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Well, this topic has been controversial for several years. On the one hand, Kenpo in America and it's territories starts with James Mitose. However, that's about all that is known for certain. He has an extensive arrest record going back to the 1930's and ended his days in prison for murder. He and some of his followers have made outlandish claims of training in Japan as a child to inherit an ancient Kenpo system of which he claimed to be 21st Grand Master. Others think he was nothing more than a conartist who took some karate, plagiarized some books and saw a money making opportunity to be the first to teach it to the non-Japanese. Some say his skill was basic and primitive, while others say he was highly skilled and people simply failed to see his genius. Cantradictory documents have been produced at San Jose Kenpo and the entire trial transcript for his murder trial reveal a great deal about this man from this perspective. Others who went to learn from him while he was in prison have varying opinions of him and his skill level, and there are more than one who claim to teach his true system.
So, who was this man and what did he know? What objective facts can be established regarding Mitose's life, and what is mere conjecture, speculation,and fantasy?
_____________________________
"Defend with honor"---Bruce Tegner
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 9th, 2007, 11:30:42 PM
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Zoran
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I would suggest approaching this from what can be proven before we start throwing our opinions into the mix.
Fact one:
Mitose left for Japan in 1920 (he was born in 1916) and returned to Hawaii in 1937. This would remove the rumor that Mitose never left for Japan. This does not prove that he had any training in his family style of Kosho Ryu, just one part of the story that is true.
http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/mitosereturnfromjapan.htm
< Message edited by Zoran -- May 9th, 2007, 11:33:39 PM >
_____________________________
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.
Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 10th, 2007, 12:14:04 AM
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GAB
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Mitose is an interesting case, why the desire now? I think one of the reasons is it has not really been looked at close enough to convince all parties. Not that it will ever be done (take the last deal with OJ and his request to leave a restaurant some still think he is not guilty)...One thing is we have many who are in the arts and feel he was a true MA and a real deal. What did he do from 1957 to when he killed the man and his trial? Strickly the big conman?
Thoughts:
I'd bet he worked someplace and Social Security would have the information. Is it privilaged?
Is Thomas going to redo the book of his fathers again along with Nimr?
*************
I have been contacted:
It seems, as of late the mention of his name and doing anymore research on his trial is stirring some interest. I wonder why? I have been contacted by several for my desire to have sort of an opinion poll on a review, should be done or not. Should I continue to try and contact Thomas and have my emails not answered?
**************
To try and say that what is on SJK is not true, is a big order. I am thinking the best thing to try and do is figure out if he did the crime (which I think he did) but not get a fair trial (mentioned by some) , and if the new book that might be coming out by Nimr and Durbin is for real. Will shed some light on the subject..(I doubt that)
I have attempted to contact both and no answer as of yet. 
The one thing that I am going to try and get info on is the transcript of the Terry Lee tale....Has to be one that is available now, I'd think?
Thanks for the invite Danjo.
Gary
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 10th, 2007, 2:13:31 PM
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Danjo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zoran
I would suggest approaching this from what can be proven before we start throwing our opinions into the mix.
Fact one:
Mitose left for Japan in 1920 (he was born in 1916) and returned to Hawaii in 1937. This would remove the rumor that Mitose never left for Japan. This does not prove that he had any training in his family style of Kosho Ryu, just one part of the story that is true.
http://www.sanjosekenpo.com/mitosereturnfromjapan.htm
On one of Mitose's marraige certificates, he was 22 years old and claimed to have lived in Hawaii for 22 years on the certificate. That too is at San Jose Kenpo. Why the discrepancy? A couple of years ago, it looked like there was an old man in Hawaii that was claiming to have attended elementary school with Mitose in Hawaii. So again, I'm not really sure that this is established as fact either. One thing we can do is to postulate what we think is the most likely scenario, i.e., did he go to live in Japan or not? If so, why did his sister claim that he was a "Judo Techer" on the document interview? Weren't his sisters supposed to be Kenpo masters accroding to some? If so, why would they not know the difference between Kenpo and Judo?
_____________________________
"Defend with honor"---Bruce Tegner
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 10th, 2007, 4:47:58 PM
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Zoran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
If so, why did his sister claim that he was a "Judo Techer" on the document interview? Weren't his sisters supposed to be Kenpo masters accroding to some? If so, why would they not know the difference between Kenpo and Judo?
That can be a simple answer. During that time, Judo was the only well known Asian martial art. I don't think most knew what was Karate, Kenpo, Jujitsu, of Kung Fu. This practice is still done to some extent today. Karate, for example, has become a generic word for an Asian striking art to the general public.
_____________________________
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.
Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 10th, 2007, 7:44:30 PM
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Danjo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zoran
quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
If so, why did his sister claim that he was a "Judo Techer" on the document interview? Weren't his sisters supposed to be Kenpo masters accroding to some? If so, why would they not know the difference between Kenpo and Judo?
That can be a simple answer. During that time, Judo was the only well known Asian martial art. I don't think most knew what was Karate, Kenpo, Jujitsu, of Kung Fu. This practice is still done to some extent today. Karate, for example, has become a generic word for an Asian striking art to the general public.
Well, that would explain why someone from the outside would make that error, but not if the sister were supposed to be high ranking Kenpoka themselves. The main point is that it's a fact that can't be nailed down with any certainty yet.
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 10th, 2007, 11:02:48 PM
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Zoran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
Well, that would explain why someone from the outside would make that error, but not if the sister were supposed to be high ranking Kenpoka themselves. The main point is that it's a fact that can't be nailed down with any certainty yet.
Well of course there is no certainty. If there was, there would not be a controversy. It may be that she filled out the form in a way someone would understand. For example, if I am asked about one of my jobs, by the IRS for example, I would say I am a martial arts or karate instructor, not a kenpo instructor. Had this been the 1940's, maybe I would say I was a Judo instructor. Who knows.
My point on the sister is, her statement really does not bring light to the subject one way or another.
< Message edited by Zoran -- May 10th, 2007, 11:04:57 PM >
_____________________________
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.
Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 1:05:44 AM
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GAB
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Hi Last post I did, got eaten and went whereever they go.
I'll say this:
The time frame is a biggie, and the idea of "secret". Mitose was one of the first to teach outside of his culture, similar to what they say about Bruce Lee. The facts are hard to beat up to bad. For there are a lot of them at SJK, you can do "nit picking" , that is what and why laws are changed all the time in the court. Over ruling etc..
Some have mentioned his sister was in the book and so was another women.
He taught his sisters, if they were younger or older does not matter.
How about this, James Mitose had some children in Japan which makes them older than Thomas. Where are they? Who is the rightful heir? Thomas is now, as far as family goes. But others were given the right also.
Others teach the art and are out there and it is growing. It is not going to go away. But I'd think someone who is in the direct lineage would be interested in a unity of sorts.
Dave Kovar is not the only one who is authorized to teach either, there are numerous who have that ability.
This just might end up in a court again. 
Gary
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 10:06:14 AM
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Danjo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GAB
Hi Last post I did, got eaten and went whereever they go.
I'll say this:
The time frame is a biggie, and the idea of "secret". Mitose was one of the first to teach outside of his culture, similar to what they say about Bruce Lee. The facts are hard to beat up to bad. For there are a lot of them at SJK, you can do "nit picking" , that is what and why laws are changed all the time in the court. Over ruling etc..
Some have mentioned his sister was in the book and so was another women.
He taught his sisters, if they were younger or older does not matter.
How about this, James Mitose had some children in Japan which makes them older than Thomas. Where are they? Who is the rightful heir? Thomas is now, as far as family goes. But others were given the right also.
Others teach the art and are out there and it is growing. It is not going to go away. But I'd think someone who is in the direct lineage would be interested in a unity of sorts.
Dave Kovar is not the only one who is authorized to teach either, there are numerous who have that ability.
This just might end up in a court again.
Gary
True. I often just say, "I'm going to Karate class." When in fact it's Kajukenbo. It's easier for the cultural reference without having to stop and explain things every time.
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 10:07:15 AM
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Danjo
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Joined: May 4th, 2007,
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
quote:
ORIGINAL: GAB
Hi Last post I did, got eaten and went whereever they go.
I'll say this:
The time frame is a biggie, and the idea of "secret". Mitose was one of the first to teach outside of his culture, similar to what they say about Bruce Lee. The facts are hard to beat up to bad. For there are a lot of them at SJK, you can do "nit picking" , that is what and why laws are changed all the time in the court. Over ruling etc..
Some have mentioned his sister was in the book and so was another women.
He taught his sisters, if they were younger or older does not matter.
How about this, James Mitose had some children in Japan which makes them older than Thomas. Where are they? Who is the rightful heir? Thomas is now, as far as family goes. But others were given the right also.
Others teach the art and are out there and it is growing. It is not going to go away. But I'd think someone who is in the direct lineage would be interested in a unity of sorts.
Dave Kovar is not the only one who is authorized to teach either, there are numerous who have that ability.
This just might end up in a court again.
Gary
True. I often just say, "I'm going to Karate class." When in fact it's Kajukenbo. It's easier for the cultural reference without having to stop and explain things every time.
Gary, who were these other children that you're referring to? Are they still alive? Did they train in Kenpo that anyone knows of?
_____________________________
"Defend with honor"---Bruce Tegner
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 10:29:54 AM
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GAB
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Dan,
The story is out there that he had 2 children in Japan. They are being sought as we write, by more than one group, I might add.
Gary
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 4:14:18 PM
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Zoran
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So what else do we know with some certainty. From many of the stories out there, he does appear to have been a liar and a con artist. So I would imagine that there would not be much that he said that could be taken as truth. The real problem with a good liar, is they tend to add just enough truth into their lies to make others (and sometimes themselves) believe.
_____________________________
God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak.
Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.
Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 11th, 2007, 5:03:22 PM
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GAB
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Boy Zoran that is true. Between Mitose and all the other "Masters" in the system or other teacher's you are right.
I am currently going deeper into the transcript and it is very good timing. I am totally convinced he was guilty (always have been, others say different, but James died in jail and should have).
He was a true scoundrel. But I am not so sure if it was reviewed (transcript) in its entirity if it might not raise other issues. As in proper court and all that.
I am thinking some others have embellished about many things regarding the system they founded also. But I believe it is a fact and has been found by Mike Brown of the SKSKI. But I am not going to swear to it. These stories change some times depending on what org you are currently in. LOL
Gary
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 13th, 2007, 6:43:46 PM
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GAB
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
He has an extensive arrest record going back to the 1930's and ended his days in prison for murder. He and some of his followers have made outlandish claims of training in Japan as a child to inherit an ancient Kenpo system of which he claimed to be 21st Grand Master.
Others who went to learn from him while he was in prison have varying opinions of him and his skill level, and there are more than one who claim to teach his true system.
So, who was this man and what did he know? What objective facts can be established regarding Mitose's life, and what is mere conjecture, speculation,and fantasy?
I think his transcript, when he talks about it is interesting. Many pick out things they want to highlight. Most that knew him mention he was a master. The biggest rival of today is Kajukenb/po and the leader of that group.
That tells me the same mentality is still with the founder as it was before and one of the reasons Mitose stopped teaching. He did not care for the way it was practiced.
The time frame of Kajukenb/po is different now than it was in the 60's when I first came in contact with that group.
Mitose's book was written in 1947 and then published in 1953. During that time there were other copies floating around and if you watch the basic arts of Kenpo by EP Sr. and others from Hawaii they involve many of the moves that are in Mitose's book.
So which came first the chicken or the egg.
http://www.skski.net/KSR.html This site say's that Mitose came before the others, who were after the war ended.
He is known for his art of Kempo, It is mentioned in the transcripts as "Kosho" and "Kempo". That is before Mitose went to jail. That is an official document I'd say.
Gary
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 14th, 2007, 11:37:39 AM
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Danjo
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GAB Wrote: "The time frame of Kajukenb/po is different now than it was in the 60's when I first came in contact with that group."
What was the story when you were told it back in the 60's ?
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RE: Mitose: the man, the myth - May 14th, 2007, 7:05:46 PM
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GAB
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Danjo
GAB Wrote: "The time frame of Kajukenb/po is different now than it was in the 60's when I first came in contact with that group."
What was the story when you were told it back in the 60's ?
Hi,
Danjo,
The time frame I was aware of was early 60's, before that it was considered Shotokan, we did the same drills and basics I believe and then there was the Kung Fu. The term that was used a lot was Hawaii street fighting.
But you know, it is not fair to say that is the way it really was, it is just what was mentioned, that I remember. I mentioned it to John Bishop and he said something about it being copyrighted in 1960 I believe.
Maybe it is because of the new state of Hawaii and that time frame?
I would like it to be resolved, but memories right or wrong are still with us all our life.
The patch of Johnny Leoning that I posted on MAP is a certain time frame...But I am not real sure. I see a similar with GM Kingi, but I don't know about the body of it and not the tags of Kajukenbo and the names at the bottom.
I see this is the week (17th) that they are going to do the Plaque ceremony over in Hawaii for the Chow Memorial.
I wonder if it is Thomas Mitose doing it?
http://kenpokempounity.com/news_events/2007_seminars/professor_chow_plaque_dedication.htm
Gary
< Message edited by GAB -- May 14th, 2007, 7:09:27 PM >
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