Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo

Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo

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Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo - Mar. 9th, 2007, 1:07:54 AM

MrRobato

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Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo

Printed From: Kenpo Thoughts
Forum Name: General Talk
Forum Discription: General discussions on various topics on Martial Arts and Kenpo/Kempo

Topic: Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo

Posted By: T.Bone
Subject: Who’s who & What’s what inKenpo
Date Posted: 23 August 2006 at 8:01pm

Hi Guys,
I have been talking to a group of guys who are saying that Mr. Parkers developed Art, is only practiced by the the students who stayed with him or trained "regularly" with him for the last 10yrs before his passing!
All the other "big"names who stopped training with him have only an under developed version of what he wanted and they are holding the Arts progress back, with statments like Mr. Parker never created that Set, or he never created that form, or those exstensions are someone elses Idea not Mr. parkers, or Form 7 is a crock of ****, etc,etc.
so who's who and whats what inKenpo?

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T.Boned

Replies:

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 23 August 2006 at 8:34pm

First, in all fairness, Ed Parker did not create Kenpo. He did develop his own style of Kenpo (Ed Parker's American Kenpo or EPAK).

quote:

I have been talking to a group of guys who are saying that Mr. Parkers developed Art, is only practiced by the the students who stayed with him or trained "regularly" with him for the last 10yrs before his passing!
All the other "big"names who stopped training with him have only an under developed version of what he wanted and they are holding the Arts progress back, with statments like Mr. Parker never created that Set, or he never created that form, or those exstensions are someone elses Idea not Mr. parkers, or Form 7 is a crock of ****, etc,etc.

Blah, blah and blah. You will hear a lot of in-fighting from the EPAK groups. Some would say that what is out there is only of the commercial version of what he was doing himself and he only taught bits and pieces to a select few.

Bottom line is it really doesn't matter. Ed Parker never wanted his system to be traditionalized. So in essence, those arguments of who is doing the "real" EPAK is a waste of time and pretty damn idiotic. What will matter is our ability to defend our selves on the street. Not if I am doing the correct version of Form 7 or doing the 16, 24, or 32 tech system.

But hey, I'm not EPAK myself (Parker lineage different system). So I tend to watch the arguments from the sidelines shaking my head and wondering if there is popcorn that comes with the show.

Anyways, it's my opinion only. So take it for what's it worth.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 23 August 2006 at 8:49pm

Hi Zoran,
what style, system of Ken/mpo do you study?
I think if you are studying a system that was founded in living memory and that system carries his name then you should follow on from what he wanted and not do some retro-version.unless thats what you want of course, but then its should carry the disclaimer kenpo as taught by Ed parker circa 1976, for example!
As for that bottom line being able to defend yourself stuff, thats a smoke screen, nope if I am to study Ed parkers system then, thats what I want to study.

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T.Boned

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 23 August 2006 at 11:15pm

I study a system called Saviano's White Tiger Kenpo. It's based of John McSweeney's system of Kenpo, who was a student of Ed Parker. The short of it, is that the system evolved in a different direction from what Ed Parker was doing (both later and past).

then its should carry the disclaimer kenpo as taught by Ed parker circa 1976

Be it if it's 1976 or 1990 (the year Ed Parker passed away), that would mean the system has been traditionalized. Which was what Ed Parker did not want. Nor would it be what I want for myself. Then again, some people want a traditional system. Which is fine for them.

As for that bottom line being able to defend yourself stuff, thats a smoke screen, nope if I am to study Ed parkers system then, thats what I want to study.

How can that be a smoke screen?? Unless you want to learn kenpo to dance.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 24 August 2006 at 7:33am

Hey Zoran,
I have heard of White Tigers but not "Saviano's White Tiger Kenpo" please tell me more? Iam aware of Mr. John McSweeney who is a well quoted Kenpoist and has a credible history.
What I am talking about is E.Ps. legacy of documented information i.e The 11 Belt Journals, The Infinite Insights Series, The Encyclopedia of Kenpo etc.etc. all of which must be studied in tandom with physical practice to ensure that the individual has a personalised Kenpo development , this is the way that The Parker System will resist becoming a "Trad Art" !
All of the above must be coupled with an instructor who has embraced and studied the System so that it can progress, For "EPAK" to progress it does not need seniors who continually says Ed never done that, or that aint his material or as one "legend" is quoted as saying after viewing Mr. Parkers only 2 legit teaching Videos "yes I know mr. Parker is narrating the video and all the Stuff is out of the Infinite Insights, but thats, not what Mr. Parker wanted"!!
The self defence Element of Kenpo should be primary and therefore I suppose it is a "bottom Line", but really that should be a short term goal as well as fairly easily achievable to a dedicated student, where as the Study of Kenpo as an Art Form is a much harder as well as a lifelong challenge of personal improvement, beyond the kick in the groin, punch to the throat level.
I agree to stop kenpo becoming some sort of "Dance" is important, thats why the brainwashing or "monkey see, monkey do" Kenpo that is being propagated in "lineage" and the like schools is really what will kill or traditionalise this dynamic , progressive "Art Form".
The little empires that are starting to sprout are being supported by students who thirst for knowledge and guidance but are getting dogma and limited perspective from their "Seniors". Mr. Parkers System should still be developing that is the true nature of the beast and the exspression of Kenpo as an Art should appreciated by all and not derided by the commercially based few. [:s]
I like the fact that your group are actually very specific about the style /sytem of kenpo they teach.

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T.Boned

Posted By: Mushu
Date Posted: 24 August 2006 at 12:32pm

I study under the Planas lineage so from what I've been told its "old school". But you know what, it matters not. What I'm concerned with is if "I" am happy with what I am doing and wether it suits "my" needs. I have trained at several other schools and types of Kenpo/Kempo and a few other Japanese hardstyles. I'm not going to claim to have found the "ultimate" place for everyone. Lots of people have different expectations and would not enjoy what I do and thats just fine. What I have found is that even in the same system, the feel of the schools can vary greatly. I found a place and group that I like and what ever version it's called I like it and think it's taught well. This is what I think is most important in school/style selection. Unfortunatly alot of beginners don't what to look for to decern what they might require, like or prefer in training style or school feel wise.

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It's a great day to be alive!

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 24 August 2006 at 12:57pm

I have heard of White Tigers but not "Saviano's White Tiger Kenpo" please tell me more? Iam aware of Mr. John McSweeney who is a well quoted Kenpoist and has a credible history.

You can check out http://www.whitetigerkenpo.com/ - http://www.whitetigerkenpo.com/

Also, there is an article about the system at a martial arts wiki http://www.martialtalk.net/wiki/index.php/Saviano%27s_White_ Tiger_Kenpo - HERE . That article gives a little more history to it and leads into a couple of other articles.

As to the rest of your post, I don't disagree with you. Just have to get back to work so I'll post my comments later.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 24 August 2006 at 6:24pm

Hi Mushu,
Thats fine, if you are happy with"old school" is that code for "olds cool", and heck same system schools can have a different feel from class to class, so if you are happy with what you have come across after training in several Ken/mpo styles and a few Japanese hard styles, great, I have "studied" only style, so do you do Parker kenpo or Planas Kenpo?
Zoran, I too must work (dammed average life) I will read the article and look, forward to your comments.

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T.Boned

Posted By: Mushu
Date Posted: 25 August 2006 at 6:33pm

T.bone what do you study?
Old's cool, I like that. Yes, Mr. Planas teaches Parker Kenpo. My observation when I have seen him is that Mr. Planas focuses on the back to basics first and having a solid foundation on how to move correctly with power and an understanding of what and why you are doing it as well as using your own brain to add, delete, insert, etc. You have much harder tailoring the art to yourself if you don't understand why you are doing techs a certain way. If your base is bad (learning and stance wise) how good can the rest be. I am not disparaging any of the other Kenpo greats mind you. That is why my prior post focused on personal need and choice. You are a better man than me if you can wade though all of the hype and infighting and tell me who is teaching or doing what Mr. Parker wanted. Also working and living the average life, we are all limited by a certain extent on who you get to see in class or seminar by were you live and train. And yes you are right the surface art is easy, understanding how it all fits and works together is the real work.
Good luck in your search.

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It's a great day to be alive!

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 25 August 2006 at 9:36pm

I study Ed Parkers kenpo.
Yeh! Huks solid at basics, he doesnt go much on a lot of the latter half of the training syllabus, but its good to stick to what you know!
After nearly 30 years training I am starting to see thru the hype, the ego's, the organisations head counting and get back to the real basic which isn't the gold standard but the gray(matter) standard, the one thing that should be at the heart of any art, thinking for yourself.
Kenpo fits together and works differently for different people, as it should, because it is an Art Form and therefore open to interpretation, basics not withstanding.

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T.Boned

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 28 August 2006 at 4:29pm

T Bone,

I think the difference between you and I is that we look at kenpo from a different points of view. Besides the fact we are from different systems, I look at kenpo as a skill to be honed and SD is the primary focus of the skill. While, from your post, you look at it as an art form where SD is the short term goal. Nothing wrong with that, we are just in different places.

The primary thing about EPAK is the amount of politics, bickering and lack of respect for each other (as well as for others from different systems). Of course, this is really not the norm. Only what is most noticeable because it tends to be human nature to notice the bad more than the good. There is no unity in EPAK, nor will there ever be. Not until everyone can agree to disagree and respect eachothers paths, opinions, and beliefs. They may find that if they do, they can learn more from eachother than on their own.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 12:44pm

Sad but true, Zoran, sad but true!

T.

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T.Boned

Posted By: dynamickenpo
Date Posted: 02 September 2006 at 5:02pm

We all have different reasons, and different perspectives for what we study, that is what makes Kenpo in all its forms so great.

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God must be fond of stupid people, he created so many of them.

Rob Broad

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 9:03am

Yeah, I agree with you, kenpo can be great in all its forms, its a shame that other peoples perspective and experiences are not taken into account more often, rather than have it stuck in some sort of 80s "Claifornian" time warp ie C. T . Obriant, man if that guy is not on something then he has real problems.

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T.Boned

Posted By: kenpogangster
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 4:07pm

ive met so called ed parker american kenpo students that are weak as fuc thats why i asked before what was up with my kenpo cause the peeps i talk of know all the facts all the history but when its time to get em up they act all scary and get hurt real quick in combat - them dudes give the e.p. schools a bad name from my point of view , also got boys that are american kenpo students out of pasadena with l.tatum that are bad ass i think whos who and whats what depends all on you , my younger brother just did 10 years in the california youth authourity and knows nothing about martial arts but its ganruanteed that he could do serious damage to any one i train with in combat ! my lil bro is a savage

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 06 September 2006 at 4:33pm

quote:

T.Bone] C. T . Obriant, man if that guy is not on something then he has real problems.

Clyde is something else, I'll grant that. He keeps getting banned from different forums. I hear that he has the skill level, just no manners.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 07 September 2006 at 1:45pm

quote:

Zoran]
[ I hear that he has the skill level, just no manners.

Oh Yeh!, well you heard wrong, he was Tatums punch bag for a while,nuthin more nuthin less, Larry is privately embarassed by his ability, actions and attitude.

DoooooD

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T.Boned

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 07 September 2006 at 4:23pm

quote:

T.Bone]
quote:

Zoran]
[ I hear that he has the skill level, just no manners. 

Oh Yeh!, well you heard wrong, he was Tatums punch bag for a while,nuthin more nuthin less, Larry is privately embarassed by his ability, actions and attitude.

DoooooD

Sorry to hear that. But lets drop the Clyde topic. I would like to hear more but, use the PM so it's private. I try to discourage public bashing of any individual. No matter if they deserve it or not.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: T.Bone
Date Posted: 08 September 2006 at 1:50am

quote:

Zoran]

quote:

T.Bone]
quote:

Zoran]
 [ I hear that he has the skill level, just no manners. 
 

 Oh Yeh!, well you heard wrong, he was Tatums punch bag for a while,nuthin more nuthin less, Larry is privately embarassed by his ability, actions and attitude.
 
 DoooooD
 Sorry to hear that. But lets drop the Clyde topic. I would like to hear more but, use the PM so it's private. I try to discourage public bashing of any individual. No matter if they deserve it or not.

Oh Heck Zoran, you gone and spoiled all the fun,well OK if you say so, from now on my opinions of that **** ******* ,****** ****** Clyde ******* T. ******* Obedient will be kept to myself, its gonna be hard, but I am sure that I can do it no matter how much the ***** desrves to be bashed , verbally and physically

have a great censorship day

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T.Boned