honorary black belt

honorary black belt

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honorary black belt - Mar. 9th, 2007, 1:23:37 AM

MrRobato

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honorary black belt

Printed From: Kenpo Thoughts
Forum Name: General Talk
Forum Discription: General discussions on various topics on Martial Arts and Kenpo/Kempo

Topic: honorary black belt

Posted By: MAC1
Subject: honorary black belt
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 2:39am

what's an honorary black belt?, is it a rank? GM parker issued this to elvis i think, then he got high rank, what merit does this title hold?

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jbMAC

Replies:

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 4:04am

Honorary rank is when you are awarded rank for reasons other than your skill level. For example, Elvis promoted Parker's Kenpo grealty as well as being his student. That was more a business and political move.

Some people are given Honorary PhD's after they contribute to a College. They were given this for their contribution, not for their study or knowledge.

There is another term I use for Rank award when not by your instructor. "Like Rank". For example, who awarded Ed Parker his higher ranks? Before you say Chow, no it was not the case for most of his ranks. If I recall correctly, the founder of Kajukenbo (Emperado), awarded Ed Parker his 5th. Emperado was Parker's senior. Both students of Chow. By then, they both had their own seperate systems. Yet Ed Parker was not a Kajukenbo stylist. So Ed Parker recieved his 5th from Emperado in recognition of his skill and achievements in Kenpo. Sort of saying, "Hey, your a 5th as far as I'm concerned."

Ed Parker also awarded "Like Rank" to others. Castro is one that comes to mind. As well as my instructor's instructor, John McSweeney. McSweeney received his 6th and 7th from Ed Parker. Even though by then, he was no longer studing with him or teaching Parker Kenpo.

Sort of like a College giving you a business degree, not because of your contribution or attending their school. But because of your experience and knowledge of business gained through practical experience, self education or education in another school.

Last, I would like to say, after about 4th or 5th degree, rank becomes somewhat relative. For the most part, it becomes a time and grade thing.

Honorary Rank - Rank awarded for contributions for other than skill or knowledge of martial arts (does not necessarily mean they are unskilled).

Like Rank - Rank awarded as a form of recognition for your skill and level of ability outside of your instructor and/or system.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: MAC1
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 7:57am

THANKS ZORAN you've explained this matter perfectly. though i had trouble accepting this from a couple of schools, i now understand that these instuctors appreciate my abilities.

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jbMAC

Posted By: taoist spider
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 12:19pm

When you think about it at some point if you are the head of a system of any size you almost have to promote your self to a ranking you did not “earn” like most of your students are trying to earn.

For example in our system you are not allowed to open a dojo until you are a 3rd Black (Sifu) and with his blessing I have seen this hard and fast rule fudged as long as the student is in good standing. (I can think of at least 2 seconds who have small schools).
At the same time I have seen him refuse to let Black Belts open schools with his blessing and when they did it anyway were excommunicated.

Very Long Story!!!

But back to my point.

In GGM Castro’s system you are not qualified to promote anyone unless you are a ranking of at least 3rd black and then you can only promote them to 2 strips under your ranking.

So a 3rd strip can only promote to 1st Black.

If you have a school for any length of time (15 years or more and the head of the system has retired.) you would almost have to self promote to stay ahead of the student body.

In my school that takes aprox. 20 years as an adult student to earn the rank of “Professor” or 8th degree. Time served in the kid’s class does not count.

With that in mind how many people have actually studied with the same instructor for that length of time? I think in the 6 years I have been studying I have only meet maybe 10 people who have studied with the same instructor long enough to “earn” that 8th degree.

I think where it becomes a bad thing is when you meet the guy who is only 30 or so and he is calling him self the Great Grand Master of his style and the only reason you have never heard of it before was that it was only passed from monk to monk in a cave on the other side of the world and when he was there in the Peace Core he was taught the “secret” moves in payment for digging a well and teaching them to farm.

I think that is why I prefer to ask how long have you been studying rather what rank are you?

By the way I actually meet that guy he has a school in the Mission District of San Francisco and has maybe 15 students.

Taoist Spider

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look around inside, you just might like your-self

Posted By: flying crane
Date Posted: 16 October 2005 at 12:23pm

quote:

taoist spider]I think where it becomes a bad thing is when you meet the guy who is only 30 or so and he is calling him self the Great Grand Master of his style and the only reason you have never heard of it before was that it was only passed from monk to monk in a cave on the other side of the world and when he was there in the Peace Core he was taught the “secret” moves in payment for digging a well and teaching them to farm.
By the way I actually meet that guy he has a school in the Mission District of San Francisco and has maybe 15 students.

whoa. I wonder if I know that school? the name wouldn't happen to contain the word "octopus" would it?

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 2:05am

I think we all know that school.

Or at least one like it. Problem with martial arts, is there is no professianal organization or certification for teaching. So martial artists can say or claim just about anything.

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Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic
http://www.martial-links.com - Martial-Links - Web design and hosting
http://www.martialartsindustry.net - Martial Arts Industry Network

Posted By: MAC1
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 8:03pm

i agree, but when your in the zone for a long time and growing, and you know your good(always room to improve) and someone ask that old question and you reply "I'm an honorary black belt from two schools.",
they say oh, or what? then i'll get back to you etc....,

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jbMAC

Posted By: taoist spider
Date Posted: 23 October 2005 at 6:11pm

Sigh - I sometimes forget how small the world is…

So at his point I should explain the story. It was about 5 or 6 years ago…

I was trying to find a place to grab lunch one day and noticed a small dojo, I stopped and watched a part of the warm up for a day class through the front window.

I don’t remember much about the school other than it was sort of small and was in a corner building.

He seemed to be in his mid to late 30’s, was kind of a big guy and wore a pretty flashy out fit and he came out to invite me in to watch the class. I declined as I was starting to run late. I sort of wish now that I did spend the time to form a better opinion of the man, formed more on experience than a quick once over.

And I have no idea how he was trained. The whole thing about the Peace Core was a tongue in check sort of thing.

I just remember walking away wondering how someone my own age could possibly be that well trained and have the maturity in mind, body and sprit to have earned, or been granted such a lofty title.

Perhaps I just watch to many old movies where the old guy with the walking stick is the guy with all the real knowledge. ( Yoda Lives! )

To me Great Grand Master = Great Grand Father

I am still far more impressed by how long you have been studying, than the belt.

The funny thing is if he had not referred to him self as the Great Grand Master I do not believe I would have had a problem with him at all. As far as it went his students seemed into what he was teaching them and in the short conversation I had with him he seemed like a nice guy.

Its just Great Grand Master by age 35 or 40?

Cut to 6 years later.

I write this I think about the fact that my own Grand Master is about my own age.

Ralph Castro’s son Rob Castro is the Grand Master of the system I am studying and is his father successor. He is about my age give or take a few years and is one of the fastest people if have ever met. The winter before last he lined every one in the sparring class up and gave us all 2 minutes to “try him”. Only a couple over 3rd black scored anything on him at all and to students like me (@ the time Brown) it was just sad. The man could cross the 6 feet of the school crest and kick me 3 time’s and slap me a couple of more time before I had a chance to react.

It was the most valuable lesson I have ever received.

So in short is it possible to be that good so young?

Yes. I know in my hart that my Grand Master Rob Castro is that good, because I have felt it for my self. (No I did not see it, that was part of the problem for me)

He also grew up in a dojo and not just any dojo he had a very special father who had friend’s like William Chow, Ed Parker and Bruce Lee coming over to his house and working out with his father and spending time with him.

So the issue is with me. Since I cant be that good I don’t see how any one else can be.

Some day I hope to grow up.

And yet a small voice in the back of my head still asks how is that possible?

Taoist Spider

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look around inside, you just might like your-self

Post #: 1

RE: honorary black belt - May 4th, 2007, 6:41:57 PM

Danjo

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Joined: May 4th, 2007,
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quote:

Posted By: Zoran
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 4:04am

Honorary rank is when you are awarded rank for reasons other than your skill level. For example, Elvis promoted Parker's Kenpo grealty as well as being his student. That was more a business and political move.

There is another term I use for Rank award when not by your instructor. "Like Rank". For example, who awarded Ed Parker his higher ranks? Before you say Chow, no it was not the case for most of his ranks. If I recall correctly, the founder of Kajukenbo (Emperado), awarded Ed Parker his 5th. Emperado was Parker's senior. Both students of Chow. By then, they both had their own seperate systems. Yet Ed Parker was not a Kajukenbo stylist. So Ed Parker recieved his 5th from Emperado in recognition of his skill and achievements in Kenpo. Sort of saying, "Hey, your a 5th as far as I'm concerned."

Pretty much true. Emperado gave Parker an 8th, not a fifth. Parker got his 1st from Chow and his third (though that's been contended by some). He was skipped straight to 6th by himself and a comitee just before the 1st Long Beach Internationals in a hotel room because they thought that would be an appropriate rank for him to hold given his status in the arts at that time. I have no clue where he got a seventh from, but Emperado gave him his 8th as a recognition and then Parker self promoted to tenth.

As for Elvis, he earned his 1st degree from Chito-ryu instructor Hank Slemanski. The rest of his rank came from Parker who said that it was not honorary. You be the judge on that one.

(in reply to MrRobato)

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RE: honorary black belt - May 5th, 2007, 2:05:32 AM

Zoran

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Thanks for the info. If I recall correctly, my instructor spoke to Ed Parker about Elvis. He said something along the lines that he is a good 4th or 5th (I forget which). Anyways, Elvis did a lot for Ed Parker.

_____________________________

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Unfortunantly, he gave us 2 eyes and 10 fingers, which explains the problems we get on the internet.

Zoran "Z-Rex" Sevic

(in reply to Danjo)

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RE: honorary black belt - Oct. 15th, 2007, 1:11:25 PM

dankenpo

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Elvis was first exposed to Karate in 1958 after he was drafted into the Army and stationed in Germany. His first instructor was a German shotokan stylist named Juergen Seydel who taught Elvis at his off-base housing in Nauheim. One nice thing about the military was that you got thirty days of paid vacation (leave) each year. During his leaves in Paris he would take private lessons with Tetsugio Murakami, one of Japan's top shotokan stylists, who would help pioneer shotokan in Europe. On one occasion he spend nine straight days studying several hours each day with Murakami. With a lot of spare time on his hands Elvis would spend hours training with Rex Mansfield, another soldier stationed with Elvis in Germany. It was during this time than Elvis would also start conditioning his hands for board breaking by banging his knuckles against hard surfaces. Little did he know then that this was something he would need when he finally test for his Shodan under Hank Slomanski. At this time he would also start collecting book on Karate. At this early stage Elvis became very impressed by Mas Oyama and his legendary breaking. Including killing bulls with his bare hands.

After getting out of the Army Elvis would continue to study under different instructors, but there was no one instructor to call Sensei.

Ed Parker (1931-1960) first met Elvis in 1960 when Ed Parker was putting on a Kenpo demonstration at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in Beverly Hills. This would, be the start of a friendship with Ed Parker that would last until Elvis' death August 16, 1977. He would start his studies with Ed but at this time he was not ready for Black Belt.

His instructors were understandably reluctant to promote him to that level. None of them had forgotten the derision piled on instructor-author Bruce Tegner when he presented a black belt to Ricky Nelson. Nobody believed for a minute that the pop singer deserved it.

The solution: send Elvis to Hank Slomanski. If he survived, he'd have proved he qualified. One thing stood in his favor: he had not dodged the draft nor taken a soft role in "special services". He had served his country as a loyal American soldier.

Elvis was going to get his first taste of REAL - full contact training. Hank took his top student, 4th degree Black Belt Sgt, Saur, aside and told him: Keep away from his face, but put him down. I want you to hurt him bad - break a few ribs if you have to. Everyone sat back to watch Elvis to see if he was really the "King" or a whimpering "candy ass." The "match-up between Elvis and Saur started out slowly as Saur was feeling him out and setting up his man. Of course Elvis had watched other fights the previous lesson and realized this was something he had never been exposed to before. Then at a nod from Hank, Sgt Saur exploded with a series of full contact blows to Elvis's body which dropped Elvis to his hands and knees. It was obvious that Elvis was hurt and feeling the pain.

Then Hank related, "I saw Elvis slowly get up with that sneer on his face ... then I saw in his eyes what we usually see only in war: Elvis wanted to kill! As the two men once again clashed I stepped in to break Elvis and Stg. Saur apart, "Hank further related, "but I found out what I wanted to know. The kid was a fighter - not a quitter."

And prove it Elvis did. He was awarded his coveted black belt after six weeks of persistent suffering inflicted by Hank Slomanski, and anyone who knew the principals in this little drama knew there could be no favoritism involved. It should also be noted that Elvis was only one of a handful of civilians to whom Hank ever awarded "Black Belt".

The word came back from Hank to Ed Parker, about Elvis: "The kid ain't pretty, but he's tough and he's a Black Belt."

This is adapted from an article written on the subject by Al Tracy, which can be found at http://www.tracyskarate.com/Stories/was_elvis_really_a_black_belt.htm. Feel free to check out that link for more information on Hank Slemanski and Elvis' martial arts training.

< Message edited by dankenpo -- Oct. 15th, 2007, 1:12:34 PM >

(in reply to Zoran)

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